|  Author | Topic: Netherlands Antilles to be dissolved (Read 835 times) |
dapoolrulz
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« Thread Started on Mar 4, 2010, 9:51pm » | |
Okay so in case you don't already know, the Netherlands Antilles are scheduled to be dissolved on October 10th 2010, and they will become part of the Netherlands.
So does that mean that in the history of the UFWC, they will be listed as having beaten Mexico 2-1 and losing to Costa Rica 0-1 as normal, but their record in regards to title reigns, matches etc., will be added to that of the Netherlands?
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carter
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« Reply #1 on Mar 5, 2010, 1:50pm » | |
DID they gain any of the titles at least once? or is this a theoretical problem? 
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dapoolrulz
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« Reply #2 on Mar 5, 2010, 5:50pm » | |
Yes, they won the UFWC title on March 24th 1963 after beating then-champions Mexico 2-1. Then they lost it four days later, losing 0-1 to Costa Rica.
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carter
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« Reply #3 on Mar 6, 2010, 12:50pm » | |
Okay, that's a problem. I think we have to look at how the football federations will be changed. If it will be merged with KNVB (dutch football association), we have the same problem as during the USSR era. In this case i'd propose, that we count 1 gain and 4 days championship for the KNVB, if the FIFA officially anounces them successor of the netherlands antilles football asociation - if not, the association just ends.
But there is another possibility: Just because the Antilles are no "special territory" anymore, this doesn't mean they can't have an own fottball association. Look at the UK for example: There are 4 asociations internationally accepted by FIFA (England, Scottland, Wales and Northern Ireland). So may be the football association of Netherlands Antilles continue to exist, even if the Islands are no special territory, but rather "normal" states of the Netherlands (this is, what happens in 2010, you can compare it to Hawaii, which was a territory first and then became a state by plebiscite).
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dapoolrulz
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« Reply #4 on Mar 6, 2010, 6:08pm » | |
yeah it'll be interesting to see which way it goes in regards to who will get their records. Actually I might email FIFA and ask what's to become of their record, can't hurt to give it a shot
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zelenazvezda
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« Reply #5 on Mar 8, 2010, 7:04am » | |
In footballing terms, nothing will change. The islands in question will become special municipalities of the Netherlands, but we won't suddenly see their clubs participate in the leagues on mainland Europe.
I even doubt they'll cease to be a member of FIFA or CONCACAF.
If they did, the historical "country" with one UFWC title would just have to cease to exist. It would be nonsense to add their title to Oranje.
Without checking, I'd wager no one in their right mind added the DDR (GDR)'s titles to West-Germany's record upon reunification.
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dapoolrulz
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« Reply #6 on Mar 8, 2010, 5:07pm » | |
From what I've read, the Netherlands Antilles will be divided up: Curacao and Sint Martaan will become independent states within the Kingdom of the Netherlands (and Sint Martaan have already had their application to the CONCACAF accepted), while Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius will becomes municipalities of the Netherlands, which unless I'm wrong means that they will become part of The Netherlands. So the Netherlands Antilles would cease to exist in its current form, and the islands would become either individual states or part of The Netherlands.
In regards to it being nonsense for the Netherlands to get the credit, that's why I started the thread: who will get the credit? Serbia are credited with three title reigns although they never won it themselves; they were credited with the records of previous winners of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, SFR Yugoslavia ans FR Yugoslavia.
Incidentally I got a reply from FIFA asking for my source, so I'm going to link them to the website I found it on and see what I get back
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carter
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« Reply #7 on Mar 9, 2010, 12:26pm » | |
FIFA is unaware of the political change on the Netherlands Antilles? °_°
zelenazvezda is right about the GDR, the united german team is only credited the West (FRG) archievments, because - despite being political successor, Germany is NOT listed as successor in terms of football by FIFA. This is done for a reason: If the (united) FRG would get credit of both teams (East and West), there were possible "duobles" - so in theory, the archievment list of Germany could display a line like this: "World Champion and Runner Up 1974". To prevent this, the records of FRG continued, the records of GDR are closed - it's a country, that ceased to exist (to FIFA).
dapoolrulz is also right about Serbia, but this is another case. Here a former union got split. The union has won three titles and upon the split, the FIFA had to decied, which asociation was to succeed officially. They decieded to follow the political successor and chose Serbia. Thus Serbia is the only remaining part of Yugoslavia, while the other parts have fell apart (theoretically).
Because in our case we have both - first the Netherlands Antilles split into two halfs and then one half gets united with the Netherlands and the other half remains as (un)independant as before - we'll have to wait for FIFA to decied. But I think it's very likely, that credits of Netherlands Antilles don't count for KNVB (Netherlands). Maybe they'll count for Curacao and/or Sint Maarten, as they are part of the (former) Netherlands Antilles.
And finally there is another possibillity:
Because the Netherlands are far away, it's very unlikely, that players from Bonaire, Saba or Sint Eustatius will play in the dutch league or the dutch national team. So it's possible, that Curacao and Sint Maarten (who seceed just like Aruba) will form their own national team, while the Windward Islands continue to play under "Netherlands Antilles flag" instead of joining KNVB.
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dapoolrulz
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« Reply #8 on Mar 12, 2010, 8:49pm » | |
I have to say after contacting FIFA, they are worthy of a facepalm 
Because not only did they apparently not know it was happening, but they don't know how it's going to turn out either. The short and sweet reply I got was to contact the association directly.
I'll give it a shot, but it looks like we won't know how it'll pan out until it actually happens.
Will keep you posted
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carter
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« Reply #9 on Mar 13, 2010, 12:26pm » | |
Very strange... so obviously neither the Netherlands Antilles (or soon-to-be new associations) nor the dutch association has applied for any change in membership. This would mean, the Netherlands Antilles as a football association would continue to exist within CONCACAF.
Or maybe the FIFA just waits until the political change is done and talks to the involved associations after that.
Thanks for posting the answers from FIFA.
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dapoolrulz
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« Reply #10 on Mar 14, 2010, 6:20pm » | |
Amazingly, I actually got an answer from the association directly. Here's the reply I got:
"Once the Netherlands Antilles is dissolved the Netherlands Antilles Football Union will consist only by the Curacao Football Association, because Sint Maarten is not affilliated at the Netherlands Antilles Football Union. The other islands, Bonaire, Saba and St.Eustatius will be part of the Netherlands.
Therefor all the records of the Netherlands Antilles Football Union will stay on the name of the Curacao Football Association that has been always the backbone of the Netherlands Antilles Football Union since the foundation of this football organization and was affilliated to the FIFA on May 23, 1921."
So unless anything changes, it looks like it'll go to Curacao 
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carter
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« Reply #11 on Mar 15, 2010, 8:42am » | |
I hope, FIFA is aware of this
Thanks for mailing the association and posting their reply.
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