Post by ARCHIVE on Jun 6, 2006 12:54:17 GMT
From: southendboy71 (Original Message) Sent: 10/02/2006 20:19
Dear all,
Thank you for all your messages regarding the 1939-40 season and I have included these matches in the final scheme of things.
As per my previous message regarding the war time games, as these were on a regional basis and because of the nature of the "guests" which appeared for each club, these have not been included.
Re the first season back after the war (1945-46 season), the FA Cup was the only senior competition in place although the League clusb were regionalised due:
"...the clubs vetoed the idea of a return to the normal League basis because of the shortage of players and persistent problems asssociated with travel and accomodation..." Soccer at War, Jack Rollin, 1985
Therefore, I will just include the FA Cup competition in the records if everybody is in agreement. What does everybody think?
Thanks,
Steve
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From: AsproFender Sent: 12/02/2006 12:09
This is a tough one, but the although you should count friendly matches, you should not count "non-competitive" matches, so I think you are right.
There is a similar argument going on at Newcastle at the moment over the Shearer/Milburn goalscoring record. Should Jackie Milburn's wartime goals count? Officially the verdict is "no" as they were non competitive.
This is from the Newcastle Evening Chronicle:
icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/news/tm_objectid=16630859&method=full&siteid=50081&headline=should-we-count-jackie-s-war-goals-for-united--name_page.html
"...the simple rule of thumb for every club when it comes to the finest goalscorer in their history is that only competitive matches count. And, while Jackie amassed 38 wartime goals, they were officially decreed to be scored in friendly games. While a host of players were on foreign fields battling for their country, some naturally were still at home - Milburn working at Ashington pit. Clubs were allowed to field "guests" at home on leave and the likes of Tom Finney, Stan Mortensen, Jimmy Mullen and Bill Nicholson wore the famed black and white stripes. When 1945-46 season dawned in the August, it was the month of the horrific Hiroshima bombing and it was decreed that regional leagues would be utilised divided north and south - a final dress rehearsal before a return to normal football."
Milburn didn't make his OFFICIAL debut until an FA Cup tie against Barnsley in January 1946.
So I think you are right to start with the FA Cup after the War.
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From: gosportfish Sent: 28/02/2006 10:13
Yes, the FA Cup was an official competition so those games should count, while the regional leagues operated on exactly the same basis as in wartime, with the same relaxed attitude to player registration, so they should be regarded as friendlies.
Dear all,
Thank you for all your messages regarding the 1939-40 season and I have included these matches in the final scheme of things.
As per my previous message regarding the war time games, as these were on a regional basis and because of the nature of the "guests" which appeared for each club, these have not been included.
Re the first season back after the war (1945-46 season), the FA Cup was the only senior competition in place although the League clusb were regionalised due:
"...the clubs vetoed the idea of a return to the normal League basis because of the shortage of players and persistent problems asssociated with travel and accomodation..." Soccer at War, Jack Rollin, 1985
Therefore, I will just include the FA Cup competition in the records if everybody is in agreement. What does everybody think?
Thanks,
Steve
First Previous 2-3 of 3 Next Last Delete Replies
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 2 of 3 in Discussion
From: AsproFender Sent: 12/02/2006 12:09
This is a tough one, but the although you should count friendly matches, you should not count "non-competitive" matches, so I think you are right.
There is a similar argument going on at Newcastle at the moment over the Shearer/Milburn goalscoring record. Should Jackie Milburn's wartime goals count? Officially the verdict is "no" as they were non competitive.
This is from the Newcastle Evening Chronicle:
icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/news/tm_objectid=16630859&method=full&siteid=50081&headline=should-we-count-jackie-s-war-goals-for-united--name_page.html
"...the simple rule of thumb for every club when it comes to the finest goalscorer in their history is that only competitive matches count. And, while Jackie amassed 38 wartime goals, they were officially decreed to be scored in friendly games. While a host of players were on foreign fields battling for their country, some naturally were still at home - Milburn working at Ashington pit. Clubs were allowed to field "guests" at home on leave and the likes of Tom Finney, Stan Mortensen, Jimmy Mullen and Bill Nicholson wore the famed black and white stripes. When 1945-46 season dawned in the August, it was the month of the horrific Hiroshima bombing and it was decreed that regional leagues would be utilised divided north and south - a final dress rehearsal before a return to normal football."
Milburn didn't make his OFFICIAL debut until an FA Cup tie against Barnsley in January 1946.
So I think you are right to start with the FA Cup after the War.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 3 of 3 in Discussion
From: gosportfish Sent: 28/02/2006 10:13
Yes, the FA Cup was an official competition so those games should count, while the regional leagues operated on exactly the same basis as in wartime, with the same relaxed attitude to player registration, so they should be regarded as friendlies.