Post by ARCHIVE on Jun 6, 2006 13:01:57 GMT
From: domelmslester9 (Original Message) Sent: 10/10/2004 16:58
Well I've started reserching the ultimate task: finding the club champion. So far I've gone from 1872 (the first game being Wanderers vs Royal Engineers) to 1892. 20 years down and only 112 to go!
The title has changed hands 63 times with Blackburn Rovers the current holders of the title and the Unofficial Club Champions, having won 38 Championship matches. Preston North End are second with 21 matches won and Old Etonians are a close third with 17.
The Championship has been passed between 27 different clubs so far and hasn't left England yet.
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Recommend Delete Message 8 of 22 in Discussion
From: AsproFender Sent: 14/10/2004 16:53
Agreed. And the Charity Shield is definately a friendly match. Trophies are handed out at many friendlies, pre-season tournaments etc.
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Recommend Delete Message 9 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 05/05/2005 20:53
Hi everyone!
I was intrigued to see that several people (including myself) have taken up the gauntlet which was in the September/October issue in FourFourTwo.
It got me thinking and I decided to have a look at this to see if it was achievable. I started off with the first goal ever scored in the FA Cup back in the 1871-72 season which was in the Clapham Rovers v Upton Park match. This led on swiftly to Wanderers becoming the second club champions in the next match after they defeated Clapham Rovers.
The only time the title has left England so far was when Queen's Park, Glasgow defeated Blackburn Olympic in the English FA Cup in March 1874. The next match they were due to play was against Vale of Leven in the Scottish FA Cup Final. However, Vale of Leven scratched which meant that Queen's Park kept the championship with a default 3-0 scoreline.
Renton (who were also from Scotland) also took the championship out of England in 1886 after they defeated the then holders of the English FA Cup
It has been an intriguing ride so far - problems were found when Spurs went on their FA Cup winning run in the 1900-01 season and when Southampton went on their run to the final in 1902. Should we keep with just the senior competition or should I try and unearth the Southern League records from this time?
I have so far decided to stick to the senior competitions and not including friendlies, which means the Charity Shield won't get a look in.
I can see that other problems will persist going forwards - for example the Welsh Cup?? Also should competitions which were played during the two world wars be included? And what about those fixtures which were started during the 1939-40 season before the outbreak of the Second World War?
So far, I am up to the 1912 season and there have been a pile of matches in the Second Division here due to Burnley defeating Manchester City in an FA Cup game a couple of season back. Blackburn Rovers currently lead the way with most wins (69) followed very closely by Aston Villa (68) and then Everton (51). Oldham Athletic appear to take the championship games back to the First Division during the next season.
Any comments anybody has, I look forward to hearing from you!!
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Recommend Delete Message 10 of 22 in Discussion
From: gosportfish Sent: 06/05/2005 14:44
Definitely include the Southern League, it's a league with a long and proud history. In the early 20th C there wasn't much to choose between the Southern and Football League teams - that's why the League took in all the SL teams in 1920 - and up to 1979, the SL was just as strong as the Conference is today. It counts.
Taking the UFCC into the Southern League is no more ridiculous than taking the UFWC into Africa, Asia or Oceania if that's where the chain leads. That's the whole principle of the thing.
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Recommend Delete Message 11 of 22 in Discussion
From: AsproFender Sent: 08/05/2005 13:36
Agreed - if a club side wins the title, include it, no matter which league the club belongs to. Because of pre-season friendlies etc here is always the possibility that the current club champion will be a non-league team!
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Recommend Delete Message 12 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 16/05/2005 21:03
I've managed to find the Spurs results from 1900-01 season in both the Southern and Western leagues. However, does anybody know where you can obtain the full set of results and dates from for that season as Bristol City won a game against Spurs in the Western league in between their FA cup matches.
The same will go for Nottingham Forest who the first non-league club to beat league opposition in February 1892 who played in the Football Alliance at the time.
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Recommend Delete Message 13 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 22/05/2005 16:03
Ok - panic over! I have managed to find Forest's results from the 1891-82 season and it was only one result which was missing.
Just going to work on Spurs' FA Cup winning season..............
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Recommend Delete Message 14 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 02/06/2005 10:00
I have found Spurs' record for the 1900-01 season but they lost a game to Bristol Rovers in the Southern League during the middle of their cup-run.
Does anybody know where I would be able to obtain a full list of all the Southern and the Western leagues results from this season?
So far, I've hit a bit of a brick wall!!
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1 recommendation Message 15 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 25/06/2005 20:58
This message has been deleted by the author.
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Recommend Delete Message 16 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 25/06/2005 21:05
Progress continues to be made - albeit slowly - and am now working my way through the 1901-02 season where the UFCC has spent most of it's time in the Southern League. For a couple of games, it reverted to the First Division when Derby beat Portsmouth in an FA Cup replay and then Nottingham Forest beat Derby in a league game.
Unfortunately, Forest then went and lost to Southampton in the FA Cup semi that season. Guess where Southampton were playing?? Yep - the Southern League. So we're back there again!!
Fortunately, a very helpful gentleman from the Association of Footbal Statisticians has been assisting with the research and therefore we are making some progress......
Watch this space........
Steve
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Recommend Delete Message 17 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 02/07/2005 10:44
This is proving to be great fun trying to follow all the results through. I will be really glad with the Southern League join the Football League in 1920 as there isn't any information on the web about this particular side of things!
Millwall are the current reigning champions having defeated the once glorious Preston North End in the FA Cup. Currently awaiting Millwall's results for this particular season (1902/03) but the championship remained in the Football League Second Division for some games which was where I have been able to make progress.
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Recommend Delete Message 18 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 18/11/2005 19:32
Since the last update, we have now made some real progress....and am up to the 1910-11 season where Norwich are the reigning champions.
Further to the information above, Millwall lost the championship and it dodged around various Southern League teams for a couple of years but eventually ended up back in the First Division of the Football League.
Aston Villa currently lead the all-time table with 69 wins, closely following by Blackburn with 62.
Will be of to The British Library next week to further the research some more so hopefully will be able to make it to when the Southern League became the old Third Division at the beginning of the 1920-21 season.
Will post more when I have a further update.......
Cheers
Steve
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Recommend Delete Message 19 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 01/02/2006 13:44
I have now reached the 1938-39 season; the last one before the last war. Aston Villa still lead the way but we are currently doing the rounds round the Third Division (South) league and cup fixtures. Here's looking at the first season after the war when the FA Cup was the only major competitive competition in place.
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Recommend Delete Message 20 of 22 in Discussion
From: peter17 Sent: 12/04/2006 20:05
I have followed the club championship through from 1871, including football league, FA Cup, League Cup and European games (but not southern league and the like). I have got as far as 18 November 1958, at which point Wolves lost 2-1 to Schalke, and the title left Britain for the first time. As I have no easy access to German league and cup results from 1958, I am now stuck...!
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Recommend Delete Message 21 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 13/04/2006 19:32
Thanks really interesting despite the route being a little different with the Southern League etc, that's where I've come out with Wolves losing to Schalke in the European Cup.
I have been able to find the next 3 results from the German League and I have some information on the way which will hopefully be able to progress this a little further.
Will keep you all updated!
Cheers,
Steve
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Recommend Delete Message 22 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 26/05/2006 20:54
The German side of things is still proving to be a complete nightmare as they were very much in regional football until about 1962 when the Bundesliga was formed.....
Still trying to find some results so will keep you all posted!
Cheers,
Steve
Well I've started reserching the ultimate task: finding the club champion. So far I've gone from 1872 (the first game being Wanderers vs Royal Engineers) to 1892. 20 years down and only 112 to go!
The title has changed hands 63 times with Blackburn Rovers the current holders of the title and the Unofficial Club Champions, having won 38 Championship matches. Preston North End are second with 21 matches won and Old Etonians are a close third with 17.
The Championship has been passed between 27 different clubs so far and hasn't left England yet.
First Previous 8-22 of 22 Next Last Delete Replies
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Recommend Delete Message 8 of 22 in Discussion
From: AsproFender Sent: 14/10/2004 16:53
Agreed. And the Charity Shield is definately a friendly match. Trophies are handed out at many friendlies, pre-season tournaments etc.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 9 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 05/05/2005 20:53
Hi everyone!
I was intrigued to see that several people (including myself) have taken up the gauntlet which was in the September/October issue in FourFourTwo.
It got me thinking and I decided to have a look at this to see if it was achievable. I started off with the first goal ever scored in the FA Cup back in the 1871-72 season which was in the Clapham Rovers v Upton Park match. This led on swiftly to Wanderers becoming the second club champions in the next match after they defeated Clapham Rovers.
The only time the title has left England so far was when Queen's Park, Glasgow defeated Blackburn Olympic in the English FA Cup in March 1874. The next match they were due to play was against Vale of Leven in the Scottish FA Cup Final. However, Vale of Leven scratched which meant that Queen's Park kept the championship with a default 3-0 scoreline.
Renton (who were also from Scotland) also took the championship out of England in 1886 after they defeated the then holders of the English FA Cup
It has been an intriguing ride so far - problems were found when Spurs went on their FA Cup winning run in the 1900-01 season and when Southampton went on their run to the final in 1902. Should we keep with just the senior competition or should I try and unearth the Southern League records from this time?
I have so far decided to stick to the senior competitions and not including friendlies, which means the Charity Shield won't get a look in.
I can see that other problems will persist going forwards - for example the Welsh Cup?? Also should competitions which were played during the two world wars be included? And what about those fixtures which were started during the 1939-40 season before the outbreak of the Second World War?
So far, I am up to the 1912 season and there have been a pile of matches in the Second Division here due to Burnley defeating Manchester City in an FA Cup game a couple of season back. Blackburn Rovers currently lead the way with most wins (69) followed very closely by Aston Villa (68) and then Everton (51). Oldham Athletic appear to take the championship games back to the First Division during the next season.
Any comments anybody has, I look forward to hearing from you!!
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 10 of 22 in Discussion
From: gosportfish Sent: 06/05/2005 14:44
Definitely include the Southern League, it's a league with a long and proud history. In the early 20th C there wasn't much to choose between the Southern and Football League teams - that's why the League took in all the SL teams in 1920 - and up to 1979, the SL was just as strong as the Conference is today. It counts.
Taking the UFCC into the Southern League is no more ridiculous than taking the UFWC into Africa, Asia or Oceania if that's where the chain leads. That's the whole principle of the thing.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 11 of 22 in Discussion
From: AsproFender Sent: 08/05/2005 13:36
Agreed - if a club side wins the title, include it, no matter which league the club belongs to. Because of pre-season friendlies etc here is always the possibility that the current club champion will be a non-league team!
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 12 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 16/05/2005 21:03
I've managed to find the Spurs results from 1900-01 season in both the Southern and Western leagues. However, does anybody know where you can obtain the full set of results and dates from for that season as Bristol City won a game against Spurs in the Western league in between their FA cup matches.
The same will go for Nottingham Forest who the first non-league club to beat league opposition in February 1892 who played in the Football Alliance at the time.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 13 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 22/05/2005 16:03
Ok - panic over! I have managed to find Forest's results from the 1891-82 season and it was only one result which was missing.
Just going to work on Spurs' FA Cup winning season..............
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 14 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 02/06/2005 10:00
I have found Spurs' record for the 1900-01 season but they lost a game to Bristol Rovers in the Southern League during the middle of their cup-run.
Does anybody know where I would be able to obtain a full list of all the Southern and the Western leagues results from this season?
So far, I've hit a bit of a brick wall!!
Reply
1 recommendation Message 15 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 25/06/2005 20:58
This message has been deleted by the author.
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Recommend Delete Message 16 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 25/06/2005 21:05
Progress continues to be made - albeit slowly - and am now working my way through the 1901-02 season where the UFCC has spent most of it's time in the Southern League. For a couple of games, it reverted to the First Division when Derby beat Portsmouth in an FA Cup replay and then Nottingham Forest beat Derby in a league game.
Unfortunately, Forest then went and lost to Southampton in the FA Cup semi that season. Guess where Southampton were playing?? Yep - the Southern League. So we're back there again!!
Fortunately, a very helpful gentleman from the Association of Footbal Statisticians has been assisting with the research and therefore we are making some progress......
Watch this space........
Steve
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 17 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 02/07/2005 10:44
This is proving to be great fun trying to follow all the results through. I will be really glad with the Southern League join the Football League in 1920 as there isn't any information on the web about this particular side of things!
Millwall are the current reigning champions having defeated the once glorious Preston North End in the FA Cup. Currently awaiting Millwall's results for this particular season (1902/03) but the championship remained in the Football League Second Division for some games which was where I have been able to make progress.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 18 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 18/11/2005 19:32
Since the last update, we have now made some real progress....and am up to the 1910-11 season where Norwich are the reigning champions.
Further to the information above, Millwall lost the championship and it dodged around various Southern League teams for a couple of years but eventually ended up back in the First Division of the Football League.
Aston Villa currently lead the all-time table with 69 wins, closely following by Blackburn with 62.
Will be of to The British Library next week to further the research some more so hopefully will be able to make it to when the Southern League became the old Third Division at the beginning of the 1920-21 season.
Will post more when I have a further update.......
Cheers
Steve
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 19 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 01/02/2006 13:44
I have now reached the 1938-39 season; the last one before the last war. Aston Villa still lead the way but we are currently doing the rounds round the Third Division (South) league and cup fixtures. Here's looking at the first season after the war when the FA Cup was the only major competitive competition in place.
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 20 of 22 in Discussion
From: peter17 Sent: 12/04/2006 20:05
I have followed the club championship through from 1871, including football league, FA Cup, League Cup and European games (but not southern league and the like). I have got as far as 18 November 1958, at which point Wolves lost 2-1 to Schalke, and the title left Britain for the first time. As I have no easy access to German league and cup results from 1958, I am now stuck...!
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 21 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 13/04/2006 19:32
Thanks really interesting despite the route being a little different with the Southern League etc, that's where I've come out with Wolves losing to Schalke in the European Cup.
I have been able to find the next 3 results from the German League and I have some information on the way which will hopefully be able to progress this a little further.
Will keep you all updated!
Cheers,
Steve
Reply
Recommend Delete Message 22 of 22 in Discussion
From: southendboy71 Sent: 26/05/2006 20:54
The German side of things is still proving to be a complete nightmare as they were very much in regional football until about 1962 when the Bundesliga was formed.....
Still trying to find some results so will keep you all posted!
Cheers,
Steve